Comments on: Arkengarthdale Moor and the Death of Sods Law https://becausetheyrethere.com/2015/02/17/arkengarthdale-moor-and-the-death-of-sods-law/ ...and a few more reasons for climbing mountains Sun, 21 Feb 2016 22:29:08 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.com/ By: McEff https://becausetheyrethere.com/2015/02/17/arkengarthdale-moor-and-the-death-of-sods-law/#comment-25690 Sun, 21 Feb 2016 22:29:08 +0000 http://becausetheyrethere.com/?p=8899#comment-25690 In reply to David Sainsbury.

Hiya David. Glad you had a good day and a great walk. It’s a fantastic area to explore because it’s so chock full of history.
Regarding the footpath ccontinuation from Willam Gill: I had the same problems as you. Twice I’ve looked for the footpath heading onwards to Tan Hill. On the first occasion I climbed a steep bank up the gill side where I reckoned the footpath should have been and tramped through heathery moor. The second time I followed a bit of a track, and wwhen this petered out I just blundered on. I don’t think either was the route shown on the map. But after half a mile or so there is a vague path which passes a cairn on the crown of the moor, aand then another vague path to the pub. There was a nasty section which cut dowwn into a peaty grike, if I recall correctly.
Hope this is of some help. All the best, Alen

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By: David Sainsbury https://becausetheyrethere.com/2015/02/17/arkengarthdale-moor-and-the-death-of-sods-law/#comment-25687 Sun, 21 Feb 2016 09:19:55 +0000 http://becausetheyrethere.com/?p=8899#comment-25687 Thank you for this fantastic blog. For a number of years I have found the lead mining of the Dales and the coal mining around Tan Hill fascinating subjects. You have brought them to life. Last week, by coincidence, I did the same walk as you from Whaw Bents to Tan Hill. A fantastic walk. Can you help me with an explanation of the map around William Gill? According to the map the bridleway to the east of William Gill joins the gill very close to the “pecked” footpath line which is, I think, the route to Tan Hill. In reality, however, the path up the west side of William Gill, marked by a pile of stone on the ground, is some 200m further south west along than from where the bridleway comes in to William Gill. I am wondering if that bridleway on the map is the same as the clear track that is on the ground? Perhaps the track is a more recent shooters track that has not been mapped? I am also fairly sure that the track running alongside William Gill extends further to the south west, towards William Gill Colliery, than is marked on the map. Anyway, we could not find the path from William Gill to Tan Hill although I know from previous visits that it does exist. It is in places well marked with cairns. The heather slog was an unfortunate end to the march for some of our group and I am sure the key to it is getting the right place along William Gill where the path kicks in. Any help you can offer would be much appreciated.

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By: McEff https://becausetheyrethere.com/2015/02/17/arkengarthdale-moor-and-the-death-of-sods-law/#comment-23025 Mon, 20 Apr 2015 09:30:41 +0000 http://becausetheyrethere.com/?p=8899#comment-23025 In reply to Alan Gibson.

Thank you for your comment, Alan. Had Adjustment Ground or The Disputes lain within the lead-mining area then I would have suggested that the name did indeed originate in a legal wrangle over mineral rights. But it doesn’t; it lies several miles to the west of the nearest lead mine. The nearest workings are the hilltop collieries, none of which extends to the area in question. The name occupies a basin of moorland where no mineral workings (certainly not commercially viable workings) can be found. It may well be that the dispute took place at a time before the extent of the veins was known and the participants were taking a gamble on future reserves. If this is the case then I stand by my original statement. “I haven’t a clue where these strange names originate”.
I’m inclined to agree with you on the Ellie Harrison programme. It was very shallow and disappointing.
Regards, Alen

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By: Alan Gibson https://becausetheyrethere.com/2015/02/17/arkengarthdale-moor-and-the-death-of-sods-law/#comment-23006 Sun, 19 Apr 2015 08:27:37 +0000 http://becausetheyrethere.com/?p=8899#comment-23006 Dear Alen/ I am rather surprised that you as a journalist have not bothered to find out more about subjects with which he is not familiar – strolling through centuries of history with a resounding “I haven???t a clue where these strange names originate” with camera in hand is grossly insulting to the poor sods who once worked under and on these lands. With regard to Adjustment Ground or The Disputes, a good start might be made with this article in a local magazine by the late, great Lawrence Barker, who lived in Healaugh, historian and an authority on lead-mining. Incidently, in the 1950s when I was growing up in Reeth, we locals found it incomprehensible but nonetheless rather amusing that visitors always seemed unable to pronounce Healaugh correctly. Whah-time conditions apparently still persists.

THE DEMISE OF THE LEAD INDUSTRY IN SWALEDALE AND ARKENGARTHDATE Bv Lawrence Barker,

http://www.2dales.org.uk/gazette/archive/2000/2000may.pdf

Some of the underground workings were enormously complex. At one time it was possible to enter levels in Gunnerside Gill and, via crosscuts and waygates, to pass through the Surrender Mines and emerge at the mouth of Old Moulds Level in Arkengarthdale, a total distance of seven and a half miles. This pattern of small, isolated mines operated by partnerships of a few miners continued until the 17th century, when the boom in the industry brought in a number of mining entrepreneurs ??? men such as Dr. John Bathurst, physician to Oliver Cromwell, and his grandson, Charles, who mined much of the Arkengarthdale area. Lord Wharton, and later Lord Pomfret, also belong to this period, a period which also saw the rise of the larger mining companies, such as the London Lead Company. There were several disputes over mineral rights, particularly since the seventeenth century. A notable one was between Philip 4h Lord Wharton and John Bathhurst in the mid 1670’s over the boundary of the Swaledale and Arkengarthdale estates at Wet Shaw (later Surrender mines), a particularly rich mining area. The initial case was found in Bathhurst’s favour. A recurrence of the dispute took place in 1699. the result of which, after several more years, was finally resolved in Thomas, the 5h Lord Wharton’s favour.

A close reading of the numerous works by Arthur Raistrick,over and above those on making tracks might prove to be a very sold launch from the shoreline out into the vast ocean of ignorance with which we are all confronted. Someone recently sent me a copy of Ellie Harrison splashing around in this way at Tan Hill in a BBC programme Secret Britain – this episode was so appalling I could hardly believe my eyes and ears. I hope no one does this kind of song and dance over my grave!

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By: McEff https://becausetheyrethere.com/2015/02/17/arkengarthdale-moor-and-the-death-of-sods-law/#comment-22897 Mon, 13 Apr 2015 16:16:34 +0000 http://becausetheyrethere.com/?p=8899#comment-22897 In reply to Mavis Moore.

Hi Mavis. Thanks for your comment. What a great tale. I had a feeling the track had been more substantial at one time and had perhaps been paved. You get a feel for these things after a few years of tramping over moors. I, too, had not been aware of the bowl beneath Annaside Edge, and I was very impressed with the views and the way the path hugs the very rim as it makes its way round. That was completely unexpected.
I see Green Tracks on the Pennines is an Arthur Raistrick book and you can still get hold of copies, so I shall look into acquiring one. It’s a book I’ve not heard of before, though I have seen other books by Raistrick.
I walked over Kitley to Faggergill a few months back. It’s a beautiful area, but I bet those cottages were draughty and grim in your grandfather’s day.
All the best, Alen

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By: Mavis Moore https://becausetheyrethere.com/2015/02/17/arkengarthdale-moor-and-the-death-of-sods-law/#comment-22896 Mon, 13 Apr 2015 15:05:52 +0000 http://becausetheyrethere.com/?p=8899#comment-22896 Over 50 years ago, in my early twenties, myself and a friend went this way. My father had given me a book, ‘Green Tracks on the Pennines’ which covers various pack horse tracks. We were dropped off at the foot of Punchard Gill, less barren then than now and with a decent building at the top. Following the track was fascinating as though at times it was little more than a sheep track you could tell that it was a ‘proper’ track being in parts flagged and with some small decent bridges in others. The walk round Annaside Edge gave superb views and I hadn’t been aware of this bowl before. I agree, even then in the early 60s the path between Williams Gill and Tan Hill was somewhat elusive. But in those days there were no Coal Authority signs around. Not wanting to expend too much more energy we hitched a lift from Tan Hill back down dale with a couple of young men! Incidently I like your photo of Kitley from the side – my grandfather was born in a cottage there, became a joiner in the lead mines then moved to Harrogate in the late 1800s/early 1900s to be a joiner there.

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By: McEff https://becausetheyrethere.com/2015/02/17/arkengarthdale-moor-and-the-death-of-sods-law/#comment-22282 Mon, 09 Mar 2015 23:13:46 +0000 http://becausetheyrethere.com/?p=8899#comment-22282 In reply to lapoubelle1969.

My heart went out to Madonna, with her privacy being invaded by all those screaming crowds in boots and waterproofs. If I remember correctly, Jeremy Clarkson had a similar run-in after buying a house that had a footpath running through its grounds. It’s a cruel world when you can’t get away from the people who contribute to your wealth.

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By: lapoubelle1969 https://becausetheyrethere.com/2015/02/17/arkengarthdale-moor-and-the-death-of-sods-law/#comment-22281 Mon, 09 Mar 2015 22:19:48 +0000 http://becausetheyrethere.com/?p=8899#comment-22281 In reply to McEff.

‘Unnecessary trouble’? Finding it hard to put my finger on what that might be. I understand his concerns, who wants to see Marxists picnicking on the grouse moor?
I recall all those wild, accusatory claims that were pushed out in the more than willing Rothermere/Black/Murdoch papers. My favourite was their concern for Madonna’s wellbeing on her estate in Wiltshire – they even printed a handy stalkers guide in the form of an arial photo of Madonna’s house. Obviously, had nothing to do with Rothermere’s estate just down the road.
All the best, Paul

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By: McEff https://becausetheyrethere.com/2015/02/17/arkengarthdale-moor-and-the-death-of-sods-law/#comment-22280 Mon, 09 Mar 2015 21:46:33 +0000 http://becausetheyrethere.com/?p=8899#comment-22280 In reply to lapoubelle1969.

Hi Paul. Tory MP Nicholas Soames wrote in the Telegraph on August (the Glorious) 12th five years ago: “I bridled strongly when Labour introduced their Right to Roam, fearing that it would be misused by the hard Left to stir up unnecessary trouble in the countryside.” Give him his due, he admitted he had been wrong and that the legislation had worked for the good of all, but I think his attitude was typical of most landed types at that time. Quite what he thought the “hard Left” was going to get up to I have no idea.
All the best, Alen

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By: lapoubelle1969 https://becausetheyrethere.com/2015/02/17/arkengarthdale-moor-and-the-death-of-sods-law/#comment-22278 Mon, 09 Mar 2015 20:49:38 +0000 http://becausetheyrethere.com/?p=8899#comment-22278 A ‘fog bank welling up from Cumbria’ – typical of those Cumbrians, dumping their fog in Yorkshire.

I remember the ’emotional’ response from the landed gentry, and their friends in the NFU and CLA, to the idea that other human beings might walk on open country when Countryside and Rights of Way Act was being debated. Can’t imagine the response if it had included turbary rights as well – actually I can imagine the response.

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By: McEff https://becausetheyrethere.com/2015/02/17/arkengarthdale-moor-and-the-death-of-sods-law/#comment-22125 Sun, 01 Mar 2015 12:27:50 +0000 http://becausetheyrethere.com/?p=8899#comment-22125 In reply to EchoohcE.

Hi Mike. I like the idea of the air rifles. That sounds much more sporting.
I had not heard anything about the access/tax relief scheme so that one’s a bit of an eye-opener for me. Thanks very much for providing the link. I’ve just had a quick look at the site to see what it’s all about, and I shall return for a more leisurely look later.
Cheers now, Alen

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By: EchoohcE https://becausetheyrethere.com/2015/02/17/arkengarthdale-moor-and-the-death-of-sods-law/#comment-22092 Sat, 28 Feb 2015 13:37:25 +0000 http://becausetheyrethere.com/?p=8899#comment-22092 What a fantastic day for a walk on the moors Alen. Your photo’s do justice to the light and texture of the rolling landscape, it’s all to easy for photographs to come out looking flat and lacklustre with wide open moorlands, unless you know what your’e doing, as you clearly do.
I think the shooters should only be allowed one air rifle to shoot at birds, that would be more challenging. Not that I agree with what they do – I can’t stand them.
On the UK caving forum there was recently an enlightening post about landowners reducing their tax-liabilities by ‘opening up public access to their land’ (how nice of them). Incredibly, this practice appears to have been going on for years, but guess what? They don’t often publicise it! The UK caving forum had a bit of a ‘debate’ about the Langcliffe Estate (West side of Penyghent and Fountains Fell) and provide a really useful link where you can find out about this sort of thing, all over the UK…
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/heritage/lbsearch.htm
Well worth a look IMO ????
Cheers, Mike

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